Of money and men..What do you think?



In a message dated 2/23/99 9:55:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, VMandrilly writes:

<<I appreciated your answer. It's comment will be the occasion to go further in explaining my theories. Even if 'brute labor' is not the most important factor in the processus of creating goods, it is the most difficult part, the most unwanted, the most dangerous, but is still fundamentally necessary. Yes, 'people should be rewarded for their thoughts/actions/ideas', but I refuse to accept that they should be more rewarded that 'brute labor.'>>

See1people: Hi there. Thanks for your feedback to my feedback. You have a very big heart and I admire and appreciate that greatly. I wish I could agree with some of the worthy notions that you put forth, but have spent the better part of my life studying the nature of human nature. That does not give me any particular unique insights to humankind, because my own knowledge is filtered through my own biases and desires, as it is for all of us. So it is in the spirit of mutual-learning and with all due respect to your views, that I state that I disagree with some of your current views. Knowing you, your ideas are subject to modification and change as we continue our journey on the road of knowledge and wisdom. In my view, transactions in human nature work by many laws, but it's the law of supply and demand that determines our actions based on what we see as good and bad for us as individuals. I believe that no person should go hungry and that wealth should be more equally distributed, simply because there really is enough food in the world to feed everybody, and the means to distribute it...no poor child should die of starvation while others eat Lobster and guzzle champagne and smoke fat cigars, but we are all entitled to eat good and live well if we work for it and nobody should be made to feel over guilty or unworthy....guilt can be good sometimes, because it tells us when we are being unfair or unkind. On a larger scale, as I said...a mixture of socialism and capitalism works best in this regard, because SOME people (including Bill Gates) are too greedy on one hand...and SOME people are too lazy on the other hand. But the enemy is not capitalism. Capitalism, in the right amount with socialism (not communism) is our salvation. Communism, even without corruption, causes death and decay through stagnation of the heights that the creative human spirit can reach. No person should be told to work or die (as in the draft, which to me is not a part of democracy) for the good of the nation. That is not freewill, freedom of choice. That is saying that your body and mind belong to the state, the collective majority, and that you have no right to it. We may as well be imprisoned without committing a crime. It is noble to live for others and work for a greater good beyond our own selfish whims, but this is not noble when it is FORCED by a state or pressured upon someone by a church or organization. As I say to religious extremist...The best way to do good is with no expectations of heaven or hell. Otherwise we are doing it under promise of a greater reward or threat of worse punishment. This is not ethics nor character, but coercion. The same psychological dynamics apply to communism. It is collective force against an individuals will to decide on their own character and personal legal ethics. Bill Gates 40+ billion dollars will sooner or later be distributed in estate/death taxes, inheritance taxes, trusts, investments and so forth. Although I think he should donate far more than he has so far. Same go for all the other billionaires and millionaires that capitalism creates (along with the millions of jobs). If you want to blame something, focus more on tobacco and alcohol....these are social problems that kill millions of people worldwide directly...but starve millions of others indirectly. How? Millions of acres of valuable farm land are set aside to grow tobacco, hops for beer, wheat and rye for whisky, potatoes for Vodka and grapes for wine. Buckminster Fuller once calculated that if all this acreage was used for food production instead, no one in the world would have to starve to death. Population problems automatically play into this...at the current growth rate of just 2% per year, world population will double every 36 years. And yet we have a pope and others like him saying we should not use condoms and be fruitful and multiply.
These should be the MAIN fights we are fighting, not just economic inequality...capitalism couple with an equitable tax structure will ultimately iron things out more smoothly. Allow me to elaborate on some of your points....

<<Even if "brute labor" is not the most important factor in the processus of creating goods, it is the most difficult part, the most unwanted, the most dangerous, but is still fundamentally necessary. Yes, "people should be rewarded for their thoughts/actions/ideas", but I refuse to accept that they should be more rewarded that "brute labor." Nobody wants hard physical work when they can make money easier just sitting in an office ("I didn't work hard at making $10 million"). The truth is, they don't often have the choice.>>

See1people: In a capitalist society, we always have choices. Who or what is keeping people from making their own choices other than themselves? According to Forbes Magazine, there are over 10,000 SELF-MADE millionaires created every year, and most of these people were born poor or lower middle class, and are now creating jobs for people, SOME of whom ASSUME they have no choices in creating their own destinies.

<<You also said, " encourages thinking/creativity/invention - this is what creates jobs.".
That's true. The problem is, it also encourages pollution, low wages and.... UNEMPLOYMENT!!!>>

See1people: How does creativity and invention create unemployment? Would you rather we not create and invent things...would that cause employment?

<<This is a major error to consider that it creates jobs. In dictatorial-communist countries, the unemployment was one of the lowest ever seen. If unemployment is the problem, I have a solution: make a law that request that everybody must work anywhere, for example in agriculture, with their hands. There would be no unemployment. But the population will soon die, for lack of basic goods.>>

See1people: The beauty of capitalism is that it is run by supply and demand, if there is a large demand for food, than the large demand for labor to distribute food will grow, and so will wages paid. If there are too few people to work in agriculture, then wages go up to fill the empty spaces. Your statement that there is less unemployment in communist countries simply is not true. Many Russians and East Europeans were without jobs under communist rule. And Cuba's unemployment is among the highest on this side of the planet. The ones that do have jobs are told to work at menial, uncreative jobs. There is something inherently evil about forcing people to work for a "collective good" rather than enhancing their individuality, their freedoms to be creative, free-thinking inventive people...capitalism touches deeply on an undeniable fact of human nature...with all of it's good and bad points.....people naturally look out for their own best interest first...whether for the good or bad...the best way to make the world more effective and productive is to first make our own lives more effective and productive. I suggest looking up "Ayn Rand" and "capitalism" on the www.

<<"Bill Gates is often criticized for having Billions and Billions. (...) Plus, he just gave away over 2 billion dollars to a lot of respectable charities."
I have some doubt that he gave much of his own money for respectable charities groups, even if it is tax-deductible.>>

See1people: Why would I lie about something like that? It was all over the news a couple of weeks ago. Please key in "bill gates" and "charities" on the www to get the facts before drawing conclusions. Again, I don't agree with everything Bill Gates says or does, but he has created, either directly or indirectly, hundreds of thousands of jobs in the commuter industry..something that would not have happen with the meager incentives offered in communist countries...not only would it not happen, it never has happened and never will as long as people are told what they should do and when they should do it, without the freedom to grow without limits. Communism had put a ball and chain around millions of creative shoulders where wings could have grown instead.
Christopher